Kosha Joubert – On Collective Trauma Transformation

The truth is I often find it incredibly difficult to just be myself around other people. There is an ever pervading tension in the background of my mind and it requires tremendous presence on my part to be fully expressive in the face of that tension. And it is only when I bring that fullness of being to myself that I am able to bring the fullness of myself to another. This is where true intimacy resides.

Kosha Joubert, whom I interviewed recently, shares that community is not comfortable. It is intimate. And intimacy is not comfortable. It’s powerful. The capacity for intimacy requires tremendous comfort with oneself. It requires that we show up with our full humanity, as we are, to engage with others, as they are, and through that elevate each other with deep mutual acceptance.

Kosha Joubert serves as Executive Director of the Global Ecovillage Network.  She is an international facilitator, trainer, and consultant and has worked extensively in the fields of community empowerment, intercultural collaboration and the emergence of collective wisdom. Kosha is a co-founder of Gaia Education, which develops trainings at the cutting-edge of sustainability, and is the co-author of the internationally applied curriculum of the Ecovillage Design Education programs. She grew up in South Africa under Apartheid and has spent her life working to heal social divides and trauma.

Kosha speaks of the power of collective trauma transformation. How we can learn to truly hold space for others and support them when they are triggered. Instead of tensing up and responding with aggression, we can co-regulate by consciously relaxing our own nervous system.

She shares her philosophy on leadership, community building, and a concept she calls homecoming – a way of coming back to the deeply familiar, to nature, to our bodies, and to the planet.

This conversation overflows with wisdom and unique insight. Listening to it after our recording was a profoundly uplifting experience for me. Please enjoy.

Alnoor Ladha – On Mystical Anarchism

One of my emerging passions is exploring ways of being together. How do we co-exist and even thrive as a global society? Much of my work with Sutra and these podcasts revolves around trying to understand this question in some way.

Recently, my friend Alnoor Ladha introduced me to the term mystical anarchism – a form of self organization based on self agency and responsibility. In a recent essay he wrote on the subject, Alnoor emphasizes a belief in the conscious individual as the unit of free society. “This requires sovereign women and men who understand the structure of power, consent to rules they themselves have legitimized, and consciously choose to live within their own communities according to their shared principles and values.”

Alnoor is the founder of The Rules, a global network of activists, writers, researchers, artists, designers, hackers, and others focused on addressing the root causes of inequality, poverty and climate change. He is a Board Member of Greenpeace International and a visiting lecturer at New York University, Columbia University and the Ontario College of Art and Design.

A traditional framework of governance is almost implicitly based on the past – on how things were rather than how they are and how they call us to be in this moment. Mystical anarchism is a system of no system. It entails radical agency and responsibility but offers a unique freedom of being completely authentic to the demands of the moment. Leadership in this context is not just about embracing the unknown, it is about deprogramming what you think you already know.

Alnoor challenges us to simultaneously take responsibility for our own experience and contribute to the reshaping and remaking of our world. This, he says, isn’t activism – it’s just taking responsibility. What I resonate most with in this conversation is this concept of non-dualistic responsibility. Self agency and self responsibility does not exclude the broader agency and responsibility of the whole. It is a thread of the same impulse rooted in a mutual acknowledgment of the certain unknownness and interdependence of life. Honoring this calls for deep presence and mutual respect.

This conversation is a little more political than most and whether you agree with the views expressed or not, I suggest you listen to some of the deeper implications behind what Alnoor is saying. His approach to understanding the root causes of social issues offers much to consider. Please enjoy our conversation.

Timothy Phillips – On Creating Space for Community and Creative Expression

The journey to self expression has been a life long adventure for me. When I was younger, radical self expression – crazy hair, lots of piercings, being very loud – was a clever facade masking insecurity and lack of self acceptance. Now, some twenty years later, I encounter the creativity of my wild younger self from a completely different orientation – one of wholeness and acceptance.

I recently spoke with Timothy Phillips who shared an eloquent thought on this subject: creative self expression is the ultimate form of empowerment but it’s also a really profound vulnerability. If community exists to support self actualization, how do we create a safe space for the vulnerability that that necessarily entails?

Tim is an architect, real estate developer, and community builder. I first encountered him years ago, when I randomly ended up at his birthday party – with some 500 other people all dressed up in wild outfits. At that time I was asking myself, who is this guy and why are so many people here for his birthday? Since then, Tim has transformed his birthday party into a diverse community of inspiring change makers called Lightning Society.

Lightning Society now has an extended reach of ten to fifteen thousand people and organizes a spectacular large scale annual gathering, all sorts of regular speaker and dinner events, and a community co-living habitation in Brooklyn. I spoke with Tim about his story, his philosophy on creating meaningful connection, and the challenges with generating income through a community oriented enterprise.

Nisha Sajnani – On Art and Dialogue

One of the most challenging questions I encounter on a daily basis is: how are you? I find my experience of the human condition to be difficult to convey through casual spoken language. Can you ever fully describe how you feel and do yourself justice as a human being? To answer, I have to somehow squeeze the entirety of my experience into a simple two word response: “I’m good.”

We need art, be it painting, poetry, or drama, to express the inexpressible. Art creates a pause that allows us to really sit with what is being communicated. Listening to this creative expression in a deeply embodied way, with your whole body, gives rise to real dialogue.

I recently spoke with Nisha Sajnani about the relationship between art and community. Nisha defines community as something that we imagine and something that we experience. Art plays a role in imagining new ways of being and belonging. It creates an imaginal bridge between what is and what could be.

Nisha shares her experience with dramatic improvisation and outlines a four step recursive cycle of mirroring and emergence based on noticing, feeling, animating, and expressing. Much of my own work is inspired by Theory U which describes a similar process called “presencing” that revolves around iteratively tuning into what is emerging. The similarity in process is uncanny: observation, stillness, crystallization, action.

Dr. Nisha Sajnani is an Associate Professor and Director of the Drama Therapy Program at NYU. She directs the As Performance: Therapeutic Theatre Lab where her primary research areas of interest include the health benefits of theatre-making as it relates to social determinants of health, stigma, and social inclusion/exclusion, relational aesthetics in therapeutic theatre, scalable storytelling based interventions in schools, and sustainable mental health care in humanitarian contexts. Nisha is the co-editor of two books, including Trauma-Informed Drama Therapy: Transforming Clinics, Classrooms, and Communities, and has published numerous chapters and articles in research publications including The Arts in Psychotherapy, The Journal of the Applied Arts and Health, Canadian Theatre Review, and Canadian Women’s Studies. She also co-produced the documentary film, Fostering Democracy Through Theater.

In our conversation Nisha shares a handful of specific techniques she uses in her own practice. She talks about how bringing people together around an art making project is a way of fostering a sense of belonging allowing for multiple ways of encountering the reality of human experience. Our conversation is both deep and, at moments, poetic.

Please enjoy.

Roman Hanis – On Indigenous Wisdom in Practice

Much of my work revolves around exploring ways to cultivate heart centered presence online. What this means can be difficult to describe and it revolves around a direct experience of mutual presence and deep relatedness between two or more people.

To be honest, there are times I question whether the internet is an appropriate medium to deliver something like this. Shouldn’t we be spending less time online and more time together, in person? Undoubtedly, yes. At the same time, I connect help but observe that technology has become almost inseparably woven into the fabric of modern communication and, as such, perhaps it can be a powerful catalyst for wholeness and heartfelt human connection.

How to deliver experiences like this in an online context is an ongoing exploration. This podcast is itself a significant part of the process as an inquiry into the work of others across related domains. Today, I have an opportunity to share a conversation with a close friend and teacher who inspired some of my earliest journeys into intentional presence.

Roman Hanis has been working closely with the indigenous Peruvian cultures in the Amazonian rainforest and Andean mountains since 2001. During this time he has devoted his life to learning the ancient wisdom of these people while seeking possibilities for creating ecological sources of sustenance for local populations and working to preserve the rainforest and its spiritual heritage of sacred medicinal plants. He is the co-founder of the Paititi Institute which stewards 4000 acres of land in the Mapacho Valley of the Peruvian Andes. Roman’s work has been featured in the documentary film, The Sacred Science, and he travels throughout Peru and the US sharing a unique blend of Eastern and indigenous knowledge through community projects, healing retreats and educational workshops.

Our conversation does a deep dive into the technical aspects of creating a safe space and handling inevitable conflict in community. Roman offers insight into a process for bringing people together in heart presence and shares a beautiful quote about his own learning journey: “Everything is perfect with infinite room for improvement.”

Keith McCandless – On Liberating Structures

You could say I’m mildly obsessed with how to tap into deeper sources of knowing.  To me, it feels as though there is this vast reservoir of untapped potential just beyond the reach of conventional means of access.  How do we tap into this and can we magnify it through a collective process?

I have found that one of the gateways to this deeper potential revolves around presence and a sense of safe space.  But often, something more is needed – something to break through the habituated patterns of behavior that most people have grown accustomed to.  As humans, we tend to be naturally guarded and self-protective creatures of habit.  And yet, the promise of collective intelligence lies just beyond the boundary of our comfort zone.  How do we dissolve these self-imposed limitations?

I spoke with Keith McCandless this week, one of the co-creators of Liberating Structures.  Liberating Structures are a collection of simple, inclusive, and fun interaction templates designed to facilitate generative engagement.  Keith calls it simultaneously and mutually shaping the future.

The idea is that each moment offers a new view of what’s happening simultaneously to each participant and the mutual sharing of perspectives or data reshapes the space in which you can make choices.  Thus something truly new is generated by collectively tapping into the richness of what’s present.

We cover a range of topics including leadership in the context of collective intelligence and the importance of being in charge but not in control.  Keith shares, “our conventional habits are so fully engrained it really takes some strength from the leader or strength from everyone not to fall back into the old behaviors which are unwittingly exclusive, unwittingly stifling, of the richness that’s available to us all the time.”

There are so many things I learned in this conversation, from the origin story of Liberating Structures to the complexity science theory that underpins their architecture and the simple philosophy that makes them so effective.  I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.

Gabriel Mugar – On Being in Awe of People

One of the most important and challenging aspects inherent in community building is having a clear sense of shared purpose.  Without this, community often lacks substance and lasting stability.  I’ve seen this echoed through many conversations as well as my own personal experience.  But how does one cultivate and communicate this understanding?

Sometimes I like to fantasize that there is some sort of obscure magical formula for bringing people together in community.  But, what I find more often than not, is that much of it is just deep listening and clear communication.

My last conversation with Gabriel Mugar really brought this point home.  Gabe is a design researcher at Ideo.  In the past, his research has looked at how digital platforms used for knowledge production and civic engagement shape and constrain opportunities for volunteer participation and learning.  His community journey started in 2004 when he founded the Transformative Culture Project as a way to harness the economic power of creative arts for youth and community development.  He received his PhD from Syracuse University and was most recently a faculty member at the Emerson College Engagement Lab.

Gabe is something of a professional listener and offers some of his research refined approaches to understanding a community more deeply.  We talk about the role of listening, communication, feedback, and participation in the functioning of healthy community.

Gabe shares that “the mindset that you want to have is one of being in awe of people.  You should see people and their day to day routines as the most amazing thing you’ve ever seen because that’s what’s going to open up your mind to the experiences that are happening in front of you.”

Every time I speak with Gabe, I walk away with pages and pages of valuable notes that I apply to my own work.  This conversation is no different and offers insight into deep listening, community design, and participation dynamics from Gabe’s many years of academic and professional research.

Please enjoy our conversation.

Denise Easton – On Complexity

I was recently introduced to the field of complexity science. Broadly speaking, complexity recognizes that certain systems are more than the sum of their parts. A traditional approach to understanding a system might look at it the way a mechanic looks at a machine. If you can understand what each component does, you can understand the whole. But some systems, like organizations and communities or, say, the global human ecosystem, are more than the sum of their individual parts. They are complex.

What I particularly appreciate about this recognition is that it acknowledges an aspect of the unknown. So much human effort goes towards the pursuit of certainty at the expense of not knowing. I recently spoke with about this with Denise Easton. Denise shares that there is a sweet spot between chaos and certainty that is optimal for constructive creativity and this is where complexity thinking can help gain a better understanding. Whether it’s an organization, a community, or a movement like #metoo, applying a complexity lens can bring awareness to the emergent potential of a system.

Denise leads the Plexus Institute, a professional community that addresses real-world challenges through approaches rooted in complexity theory. She co-authored the book Complexity Works! Influencing Pattern-Based Change in Teams & Organizations, and is the co-founder of Complexity Space Consulting, an organization that helps companies cultivate profitable and innovative business practices through complexity thinking.

A complex system is the part, the whole, and the greater than the whole. Denise highlights a process of iterative inquiry and embodied awareness building that helps us see the reality and the potential of a system. In her own words, “Lurking behind every exchange that we have with somebody is an opportunity to discover something that has not been discovered.”

Waël Mechri-Yver – On Building Community in the City of Individuality

I recently heard a quote that really struck: “Infinite patience produces immediate results” (ACIM).  There is a zen wisdom to this that could apply to any aspect of life.  I think about it in the context of my own work building community online.  Every authentic human relationship is unique and bringing people together in ways that are real and meaningful takes humility and patience.

Recently, I spoke with Waël Mechri-Yver, the founder of BABËL New York and GOSPËL.  Waël was inspired by Burning Man to create a new kind of social experience based on co-creation and creativity.  Five years and 150 events in, Waël shares that there’s no shortcut to building community.  The mastery is in showing up and delivering value over and over again.  Repetition and consistency is the best community builder.

Waël has been involved with world-renowned hotspots including the mega-club of Paris, Cirque Bonheur, which he co-founded and gave music and creative direction to, Papagayo in St. Tropez for which he was artistic director for a season, and the revamped Marquee in New York whose re-launch he collaborated on to bring fresh air to the Marquee brand.

Waël shares his journey and an approach to building community that honors individuality through collective participation.  Listen closely to pick up the subtle ways that Babel has built a lasting platform for human connection in one of the toughest cities in the world.

Image credit: Jonsar Studios